Way to Russia Talk Lounge

MrSpice · Lounge Wizard Joined: 14 Jul 2003 Posts: 3436

http://www.yitdom.ru/en/europa/

http://stroimontage.ru/index.php/life?obj=15

Rick · Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 9:11 pm Post subject:

Funny, how each of these buildings has an air about it that claims it is in the centre of the universe. The exaggerated symmetry gives it stalinist 'qualities' again. Only now serving capitalism. Which mostly has the disadvantage that it doesn't add anything to the city layout, like the building would suggest. I don't like this kind of architecture: too big gestures in all the wrong places for ordinary living functions that need not attract all this attention to them.

If it were a cathedral, or a university... The story would be different..

Or if it were Manhattan or Las Vegas: a matter of piling up enough of these things...

e · VIP Joined: 23 Apr 2005 Posts: 654

I see that the post modern Asian (moreso Hong Kong and Chinese) style superblocks popular in those places are catching on in Russia. Yuck! Confused

If they are to build such condos, Vancouverish type blocks are more astherically pleasing. That trend is finnaly catching on here.

cyndy22 · Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 11:38 pm Post subject:

This is just a fancier version of Soviet housing. If I had any money in Russia like some do, I'd build my own house where I can choose style, place, and have privacy, a yard to relax in etc. Russians seem too comfortable in big apartment buildings. And contrary to what some have said on this forum, most Russians living in these apartment buildings do not have close connections with their resident dwellers. This is still true in Tallinn, Estonia.

MrSpice · Lounge Wizard Joined: 14 Jul 2003 Posts: 3436

cyndy - you don't understand. St Petersburg, just like New York City and Paris and London is a large and congested city. There's no space there for private houses with a backyard. If one build a house with a backyard in the center of the city, it would cost more than anyone could afford. You cannot imagine private house in the middle of Manhattan. The situation in Moscow and St Petersburg is similar. There are lots of new small houses being built outside of the city. People live in the city because that's where jobs and opportunities are. That's common among European cities in general, but is especially true in Russia where all business is concentrated in big cities. Most cities in Europe are urban. Even in Canada, if you go to Toronto or Vancouver you will see that most people in those cities live in highrises. The reason low-rise private houses became so popular in America was significant migration of people in the 50s, 60s and 70s to the suburbs to avoid crime and problems of big cities. So many companies also moved to suburbs. The reason you like this lifestyle is not because it's better - it is just you got used to it living in suburban America. People living in Manhattan ("Seinfeld"/"Freiends" types) would probably not want to live like that. There's now a new trend where even in the US more and more people move back to the cities. That's why condos in Chicago and New York and Miami are becoming so popular, not to mention Vegas.

Try to find a private house in the middle of Paris. You have to realize that you cannot project economic and cultuiral realities of suburban Massachussetts to urban Russia. And if you ever visit Brooklyn or Queens or any other area in New York City you will see that you have to be filthy rich to buy a private house with a piece of land here. And the new condos they build here in Brooklyn, for example, are getting smaller and more expensive by the day. Most of the prices star tat 500K for small 2-bedroom and go higher...

Paul Holmes · Lounge Wizard Joined: 12 Apr 2005 Posts: 1011

e · VIP Joined: 23 Apr 2005 Posts: 654

For once, I agree with Mr. Spice. Europe is much smaller and much more densely populated to build massive single family developments that you see in the USA. Russia is no exception. And as he mentioned, to build/buy a home would be too expensive and therefore out of reach to a Russian who averages out at $4054 a year.

And reason is probably cultural too. Soviets discouraged Private ownership of residental property and so did the Czars and pretty much brainwashed and conditioned the populance into beliving it is bad. Only houses one could own and build are dachas which were for vacation only and probably like 70-90% of the housing stock and its primary usage in Russia today. That probably explains why most of the Russian immigrants I know except for maybe 2 or 3 here still live in apartments after being here for years while immigrants from other countries I know are already on their 2nd house.

The close personal relationships by living in apt blocks probably explains a lot about certain Russian cultural habits such as the ability to develop close personal relationships, the way they share things and invite people over and etc.

Once again, I just wish that they would just opt for Vancouver/Las Vegas style apts instead of this ugly futurist trash thats also going up in Beijing/Shanghai/Seoul and all across Asia.

MrSpice · Lounge Wizard Joined: 14 Jul 2003 Posts: 3436

In New York City, most people definitely live in apartment buildings. There's just not enough space for so many private houses.

As far as Canada is concerned - I spent several days in Vancouver. There are lots of tall apartment buildings there. Certainly more than in any American city of that size.

St Petersburg has almost 5 million residents. You cannot build a lot of private 1-family houses in this kind of environment.

I have not seen many private houses in Paris or Madrid either.

Cyndy loved Russia before she actually went there. Now here dreams and ideals are shaterred :)

e · VIP Joined: 23 Apr 2005 Posts: 654

You obviously spent way too much time in the city center of Vancouver, Paris and Madrid, Mr. Spice. While you certainly right about Vancouver and its abundance of condos, but Holmes is definately right that single family homes outnumber the condos in Vancouver and in Canada. Next time you're there, head east of the city center towards Surrey and Abbotsford, or go to Victoria across the bay.

Ditto for Paris, Madrid, London. There are detached single family homes and etc in as Versailies, Melun, Paiaseu, (in Paris), places like Bromley, Croydon, Wimbeldon (in London) and etc. Its just that the trend in Europe tend to be towards apts and centralization and not huge sprawled-out single family home like suburbs in cities like Pheonix and etc.

And New York, theres Staten Island, Jamaica, Flushing, Forest Hill and etc.

cyndy22 · Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 6:40 am Post subject:

Mr. Spice,
It is interesting that both you and I shifted our impressions after our respective visits to Piter. You're right, I was absolutely infatuated, in love blah blah with Russia and what my mind, heart and soul felt for Russia. But I admit I was thinking, feeling and dreaming in a romantic, dreamy fantasy world. I think you actually knew that I was predispossed to unrealistic sentiment, even more than myself.

Believe me I am sad that MY recent visit which was a dream to me, fell short of my expectations and dream. I feel a deep sense of loss and depression, because believe it or not, Russia was my heart, soul and a huge passion in my life since 1998. I still feel a connection with Russia but now know and understand more realistically the differences if you will.

Everything is a learning experience and there are so many lessons, cues, experiences, etc. that affect and change us. But change is circular so to speak. Like the world. It is probably even a good thing when our reality comes face to face with other realities. Some growing experiences are more painful than others.